Trisagion hat geschrieben: ↑Dienstag 29. März 2022, 18:18
Aus dem kurzen Kapitel 29 dort ("Von der Höllenfahrt") kommt Dyer auf eine Menge Aussagen, die wir freundlicherweise spekulativ nennen können.
Trisagion hat geschrieben: ↑Dienstag 29. März 2022, 21:05
Und ich will auch letztlich nichts über die tatsächliche Lehre der Orthodoxen Kirchen aussagen, die hoffentlich mit diesen Quellen kompatibel ist
Trisagion hat geschrieben: ↑Dienstag 29. März 2022, 21:05
Merkwürdig, das klingt doch irgendwie ganz ähnlich. Nun weiß ich nicht, ob es auch in Ägypten guten Wein gibt. Vielleicht hat er ja stattdessen ein Kräutchen geraucht als er diese Zeilen schrieb...
Um die Formulierungen geht es mir gar nicht, sondern um den hermeneutischen Gehalt der darin verwendeten Begriffe. Loskauf ist nicht gleich Loskauf, auch wenn es typisch für Sola Scriptura-Anhänger ist, eigene Vorannahmen in den Text zurückzulesen, um diesen dann stolz als Nachweis über die eigenen Vorannahmen zu präsentieren. Genau deswegen ist es auch nicht sinnvoll, Zitate zu entkontextualisieren.
Für eine nähere Betrachtung der orthodoxen Soteriologie (und deren kosmische Reichweite, die im Westen leider verloren gegangen ist) ist dieser Artikel hier sehr hilfreich:
The Western Loss of Theophanies, Descent & Recapitulation of Christ
“Thy mystery of the incarnation of the Word bears the power of all hidden meanings and figures of Scripture as well as the knowledge of visible and intelligible creatures. The one who knows the mystery of the cross and the tomb knows the reason of things. And the one who has been initiated into the ineffable power of the Resurrection knows the purpose for which God originally made all things.” (St. Maximos the Confessor, Chapters on Knowledge, 1.66)
I wrote before how there was a prophetic character to many types. Their prophetic character is predicated on the reality of the historical persons and events, without which the historic nature of the Incarnation is lost, dissolving Christianity of one its key features that separates it from pagan religions. The ahistorical nature of paganism, with its cyclical time and supposed escape from creature hood is fundamental to the unique nature of Orthodoxy, where the Lord of history affirms history by entering it. This is possible because God is the author of history and guides it by His providence: His condescension to enter history is no more impossible than His creation of all things from nothing. Creation bears within itself the seeds of transfiguration as its telos, showing that even “nature” teaches the “supernatural,” given the logoi of all creation are purposed to be recapitulated in the one Logos.
Typology and its attendant uniquely prophetic manifestation of the Theophanies all witness to this fact of history being recapitulated in Christ. Recapitulation is central to biblical and Orthodox theology, and in particular in the writings of St. Maximos the Confessor, yet largely became lost in the West due to the prevalence of the Augustinian formulations of grace and the ultimate limiting of the atonement as only fully sufficient for the predestined. In this theology, recapitulation is impossible because Christ’s death is no longer cosmic in scope: He only ultimately died to effect the salvation of a few, with this world being consigned to some mythical quasi-gnostic conflagration leaving the blessed few to relish in eternity in a “Beatific Vision” of the Divine Essence (with no place for a resurrected body, due precisely to the gnostic nature of this error).
Of course, for Orthodoxy and the fathers of the first millennia’s councils this is heresy. The resurrection of man is universal, and includes all men solely on the basis of Christ assuming universal human nature. Individual persons are thus required to make use of their natural wills to participate in theosis or remain in the fallen state of death. In the Orthodox and patristic tradition, the universality of this message is also proven in the (lost in the West) doctrine of the descent and harrowing of Hades. We do not know the precise function of time in the afterlife, but there is every reason to believe the Gospel is preached to all dead. In Orthodoxy there is no canard of “What happens to people who never hear the Gospel?” Which, in most classical Western theology, consigns them all to hellfire. When Christ triumphed over death, He triumphed over all death which spread as a corruption through our nature, but not merely our nature, all of created reality. St. Maximos writes:
“He was invisible and became visible; incomprehensible and made comprehensible; impassible and made passible; the Word, and made man; consummating all things in himself. That, as in things above the heavens and in the spiritual and invisible world the Word of God is supreme, so in the visible and physical realm he may have pre-eminence, taking to himself the primacy and appointment himself the head of the Church, that he may ‘draw all things to himself’ (St. John 12:32) in due time.”
Concerning the Descent and Harrowing of Hades we must also understand this in the context of the recapitulation and universality of Christ’s redemption. The assumption of human nature and raising it from the dead not only effects a resurrection, but also relates to the world of the dead, giving Christ the keys of death and Hades, allowing Him to “preach the Gospel to the dead.” Hilarion writes:
“The teaching on the descent of Christ into Hades was expounded quite fully by Clement of Alexandria in his ‘Stromateis.’ He argued that Christ preached in hell not only to the Old Testament righteous, but also to the Gentiles who lived outside the true faith. Commenting on 1 Pet. 3:18-21, Clement expresses the conviction that the preaching of Christ was addressed to all those in hell who were able to believe in Christ:
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